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A coalition of religious and family groups criticized video game makers Tuesday for creating products that allegedly glorify murder and hate crimes--and slammed retailers for selling such games to minors.

A group led by the Interfaith Center on Corporate Responsibility, an investor advocacy group, released its list of the 10 most violent games as a warning to parents about to set out on holiday shopping expeditions.

"Unwary parents and grandparents need to know there are certain violent games that should be off-limits to children," said Sister Pat Wolf, executive director of ICCR, singling out games such as "Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas" that reward players for killing and looting characters. "These are the kind of values a serial killer might embrace," she said.

Aside from "Grand Theft," the list includes recent best-sellers such as "Halo 2," "Doom 3" and "Half Life 2." The report also singled out "America's Army," a free game distributed by the U.S. Army as a recruiting tool. Wolf criticized it for being available to users regardless of age.

"JFK Reloaded," a controversial new game that re-enacts the assassination of John F. Kennedy, came out too late to make the list but attracted comments during a Tuesday ICCR press conference to promote the report. New York City Councilman Eric Gioia said the game is an extreme example of what's wrong with the game industry. "I couldn't believe someone would choose to make money on something as scarring to the American psyche as this," Gioia said.

The report goes on to criticize the ratings system devised by the Entertainment Software Rating Board (ESRB) to label potentially objectionable games, saying the system is too vague and enforced haphazardly at best by retailers.

Gioia said his own research showed retailers made no efforts to prevent preteens from buying games rated "M" (intended for players 17 and older) in the vast majority of cases. "An investigation I conducted last year showed a minor could walk into almost any store selling video games in New York City and purchase them without difficulty," he said.

Retail trade group the Interactive Entertainment Merchants Association said in a statement that retailers are committed to enforcing ESRB ratings and are demanding identification from young buyers. "It is our belief that it is quite simply too early to assign a grade to the retailers' enforcement policies," the IEMA said in a statement, "but that if a grade need be assigned out of habitual ritual, nothing less than an 'A' is worthy of their collective efforts over the past 11 months."

Contributors to the report also criticized the ESRB ratings themselves, saying they're too vague and are mainly intended to shield game makers from criticism. "Adults need to understand game makers and retailers simply are not on their side," Wolf said.

The ESRB released a report Monday highlighting a self-commissioned survey that found more than 80 percent of parents considered the group's ratings appropriate and helpful. "As confirmed by the study just completed, the ESRB rating system is an extremely effective tool for the millions of consumers who rely on it as they shop for entertainment software for their families," Patricia E. Vance, president of the ESRB, said in a statement.

Other groups contributing to the violent-games list went further, calling on retailers to apply the same criteria to games they apply to other media. Dr. Martha Burk, president of the Center for Advancement of Public Policy, noted that leading retailer Wal-Mart bans sexually explicit magazines and CDs but continues to sell "Grand Theft Auto" games.

"The retailers have standards for other products," Burk said. "Would Wal-Mart sell a board game where a player has to have sex with a prostitute to move forward four spaces and then kill her to move forward another six spaces? I don't think so."

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Whot a load of Bull,its down to every individual store to enforce that 18 cert games,dvds etc dont get sold to minors,if a company make a game targeted for an 18+ audience and is rated as such its up to who ever stocks it to make sure they dont sell it to "little timmy" who is only 15 and still at school.

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I understand not selling mature rated games to kids, but to want to ban games like GTA because of it's content is just rediculous. Not everyone in the world is a dylan klebold & eric harris. Normal people take video games for what they are..GAMES! These people need to stop trying to save us from ourselves. And I don't see how they can call the ESRB ratings vague, blood,gore and violence under the rating seems petty straight forward to me.

Blah,blah,blah,more crap.Makes me want to play some GTA and then go shoot someone!

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Listen, I don't claim to be religious, so this comment will be misconstrude, however, does a religious group ever want to just look at banning a book that supposedly is true and has more violence contained in its pages than a Stephen King mass murder book?

That book is the highest selling book in the history of the world and contains incest, rape, killing of millions, plague, and most of all the debilitating murder of the prince of man.

Not that I'm saying the Bible should be banned, but this is definately one of those chicken and the egg moments where they need to start looking to the fact that video games don't create violence. Bad parenting, and a lack of understanding that fake cannot translate into the real world does. Banning a game won't stop violence, just like the sale of guns won't promote peace.

These people need to hold the collection plates with their mouths so that all we here are incomprehensible mutterings rather than nonsensical blatherings. If these people weren't so busy protesting violence in video games, on TV or anywhere else, they'd be able to go home and have that conversation with their kids.

After all... that's why the preacher's daughter is the best one to date... he's never around, and you have a lot of alone time with her. And she feels like doing "stuff". That's my tip of the day.

Not that I'd know anything about that.

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Man all those jesus freaks are starting to get on my nerves, they give all christians a bad name. I guess they don't realixze how idiotic they make themselves look when they do things like this. i wonder how long it will be until they start burning video games.


p.s. VIOlENCE ROCKS!

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Religious people can be some of the most judgemental idiots on the planet.

Taking the faults of bad parenting, and finding a scapegoat, video games, weed, that 'evil' friend. WRONG, how about being a good parent? Never thought of that one did ya....

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I think it's much to do about nothing, if you ask me. There's already laws on the books to keep thoses so called evil games out of the hand of innocent kids. (ha,ha,ha) Why don't they just fine the store that sell to minors and be done with it? C'mon guys, there's alway going to be a group that's offended by something...religious or otherwise. Sometimes, i think that those religious groups and the game companies have a backdoor deal going on. You protest our game and our sales rise, and we will give you a piece of the profits....

My parents wouldn't buy me "violent toys". My mother even belonged to a group that snuck into stores and put warning stickers on GI Joes - "Warning: This toy causes violence in children". Meanwhile I went out and stole GI Joes, and forced my friends to let me play with theirs.

Children who are raised with healthy doses of love and intellectual curiosity will be fine. Now where's that Judas Priest album?



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Religious people don't except violence but they seem to accept this garbage-

"[I Samuel 15:2-8] "Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. And Saul gathered the people together, and numbered them in Telaim, two hundred thousand footmen, and ten thousand men of Judah. And Saul came to a city of Amalek, and laid wait in the valley. And Saul said unto the Kenites, Go, depart, get you down from among the Amalekites, lest I destroy you with them: for ye shewed kindness to all the children of Israel, when they came up out of Egypt. So the Kenites departed from among the Amalekites. And Saul smote the Amalekites from Havilah until thou comest to Shur, that is over against Egypt. And he took Agag the king of the Amalekites alive, and utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword."

[Exodus 32:27] "And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour."

[Numbers 31:6-18] "And Moses sent them to the war, a thousand of every tribe, them and Phinehas the son of Eleazar the priest, to the war, with the holy instruments, and the trumpets to blow in his hand. And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males. And they slew the kings of Midian, beside the rest of them that were slain; namely, Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, five kings of Midian: Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with the sword. And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods. And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire. And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts. And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and unto the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which are by Jordan near Jericho. And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp. And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle. And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD. Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."

[Luke 19:27] "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."

[Matthew 24:7-10] "For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another

[Exodus 12:29-30] "And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharoah that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle. And Pharaoh rose up in the night, he, and all his servants, and all the Egyptians; and there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead."

[II Kings 9:24-26] "And Jehu drew a bow with his full strength, and smote Jehoram between his arms, and the arrow went out at his heart, and he sunk down in his chariot. Then said Jehu to Bidkar his captain, Take up, and cast him in the portion of the field of Naboth the Jezreelite: for remember how that, when I and thou rode together after Ahab his father, the LORD laid this burden upon him; Surely I have seen yesterday the blood of Naboth, and the blood of his sons, saith the LORD; and I will requite thee in this plat, saith the LORD. Now therefore take and cast him into the plat of ground, according to the word of the LORD." [as revenge to Jehoram's father]

[Esther 9:12-14] "And the king said unto Esther the queen, The Jews have slain and destroyed five hundred men in Shushan the palace, and the ten sons of Haman; what have they done in the rest of the king's provinces? now what is thy petition? and it shall be granted thee: or what is thy request further? and it shall be done. Then said Esther, If it please the king, let it be granted to the Jews which are in Shushan to do tomorrow also according unto this day's decree, and let Haman's ten sons be hanged upon the gallows. And the king commanded it so to be done: and the decree was given at Shushan; and they hanged Haman's ten sons."

[II Samuel 4:12] "And David commanded his young men, and they slew them, and cut off their hands and their feet, and hanged them up over the pool in Hebron. But they took the head of Ish-bosheth, and buried it in the sepulchre of Abner in Hebron."

[Judges 19:24-29] "Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his [a visitor's] concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing. But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go. Then came the woman in the dawning of the day, and fell down at the door of the man's house where her lord was, till it was light. And her lord rose up in the morning, and opened the doors of the house, and went out to go his way: and, behold, the woman his concubine was fallen down at the door of the house, and her hands were upon the threshold. And he said unto her, Up, and let us be going. But none answered. Then the man took her up upon an ass, and the man rose up, and gat him unto his place. And when he [visitor] was come into his house, he took a knife, and laid hold on his concubine, and divided her, together with her bones, into twelve pieces, and sent her into all the coasts of Israel."

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"After all... that's why the preacher's daughter is the best one to date... he's never around, and you have a lot of alone time with her. And she feels like doing "stuff". That's my tip of the day."

lol, Amen to THAT=)

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Next we will hear:
"We, the religious fanatics of America, do hereby cry for the banning and otherwise outlawing of trees, because they produce STICKS, which, for centuries, have been used by small children as pretend swords, clubs and rifles. We will not tolerate Nature's production of these violent hate toys any longer"

"Violence" is part of drama, learning, and excitement. Some things in play are fun BECAUSE they are so obviously wrong. Thats why we laugh at slapstick, which is people getting hurt for laughs. Our response to these things is cathartic.

Funny how they arent trying to ban Mel Gibson's Jesus movie. Now THAT was a violence snuff film if Ive ever seen one... but it was a chapter from THEIR book of violence, so somehow its ok with them.

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Guys, guys, guys...there's a difference. The Bible does not glorify violence. It does not turn violence into a form of entertainment like video games do. Please complete your thoughts and run a logic comb through them before spouting off next time.

But anyway, I do agree that the problem is not in the games. If you don't want your kids to play violent games, either because you want to shelter them, or because you think they may develop some kind of homocidal tendencies from playing the games, then it's your responsibility to keep the games away from the kids. It certainly is understandable that some people may see violence in video games as utterly distasteful, and it may be, but bad taste is not illegal or necessarily immoral.

[ December 01, 2004, 08:57: Message edited by: foahchon ]

Halo 2, if you know the storyline, is about a fanatical religious group called the Covenant whose only purpose is to exterminate any race that they believe to be anti-sacred (Humans, this time).

They (the Covenant) even believe that their death, by using the Halo, will deliver them to their GOD in the equivalent of their Heaven.

Sounds like some radical groups on Earth...

There is nothing anti-religious about surviving a religiously fantatical attack. It just proves that religion promotes discrimination which drives violence...

...and I'm Catholic!

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quote:

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Originally posted by foahchon:
Guys, guys, guys...there's a difference. The Bible does not glorify violence. It does not turn violence into a form of entertainment like video games do. Please complete your thoughts and run a logic comb through them before spouting off next time.
.

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My thougts exactly.

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I say we just ban religion to get rid of their placebo insanity.

quote:

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Guys, guys, guys...there's a difference. The Bible does not glorify violence. It does not turn violence into a form of entertainment like video games do. Please complete your thoughts and run a logic comb through them before spouting off next time.

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There is also a difference between actually believing the creator of all things getting pissed off and killing everyone, and playing in a non-real game environment for fun.. lol.

And besides, good ol' christian 'Dubya' is making sure were in war for a while... We want our kids to be able to shoot! lol

quote:

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I say we just ban religion to get rid of their placebo insanity.

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Acid.. The religion is just material, if there is a problem with religion, it's a problem with the people.. If it's indeed a problem at all.

[ December 01, 2004, 18:51: Message edited by: e v o BP ]

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quote:

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Originally posted by acidcactus:
I say we just ban religion to get rid of their placebo insanity.

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if we wanted to get rid of insanity we would get rid of u

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quote:

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Originally posted by Talon:

quote:

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Originally posted by acidcactus:
I say we just ban religion to get rid of their placebo insanity.

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if we wanted to get rid of insanity we would get rid of u

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I see that you lack the capacity to make a crack at me rather you try to mirror my statement.Clever but dull.

quote:

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Originally posted by acidcactus:

quote:

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Originally posted by Talon:

quote:

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Originally posted by acidcactus:
I say we just ban religion to get rid of their placebo insanity.

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if we wanted to get rid of insanity we would get rid of u

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I see that you lack the capacity to make a crack at me rather you try to mirror my statement.Clever but dull.

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im sorry i was mad at the time

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quote:

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Originally posted by acidcactus:
I say we just ban religion to get rid of their placebo insanity.

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That shows your ignorance and shallowness whenever it comes to things you don't believe in or understand.

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As always, here's the Penny Arcade take on this:



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hahaha great stuff grendal! BRILLIANT!

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Ok talon you get a hug.
And you darth.Your a newb.You know not of me so your comments are in a feeble state.